2024 Election Thread

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

I've never failed to vote in a primary. I've never voted for Biden in a primary.

I voted for Biden in the 2020 general election. I live in Tennessee where my vote didn't count.

Your preferred policies and politics have been dominant for 30 years plus.

Trump is not a product of just your primary vote you fucking imbecile. And that's not what you have been told and warned of for 30+ years.

He is the inevitable product of your politics, all of it.

If you need an example. Which you do not, not because you understand, but because you will refuse to. Your new stance on being pro migrant abuse. That is part of the process of your liberalism creating/becoming/enabling fascism. Which you were told at the time, very recently, but have already conveniently forgotten.

[MGuy]

I don't think dead is capable of envisioning a way for things to get better nor is he capable of seeing exactly how his politics make things worse. It's simply not the way his brain works. Dead absorbs every position he has from NYT articles, not from a place where he has reasoned out the consequences or intent of any particular set of actions the people who's boot he licks have taken or are taking. Remember not long ago he really thought that like the 100th instance of Biden "getting serious" about dealing with Israel meant anything even though there has been ample evidence that nothing was going to effectively change. He can recognize that there might be a problem but can't comprehend how voting for people who have no intent on solving those problems might be a detriment to the system. For people like this obvious structural failures and corruption are just minor issues and not evidence of catastrophic and unsustainable dysfunction. I suspect that's why his brain translates "I wish the Dems would stop doing bad things" into people wanting a violent revolution.

The issue beyond the fact that these kind of people, and the people they prefer to elect, are bad (at best) at actually dealing with fascism and corruption (when not participating in it) they defacto have a stranglehold over the seats of power and are determined to plug up the system with their rotting bodies. Even when insiders see the writing on the wall and make it known little changes if ever.

The funny thing here is that I do actually think it would be better for a Dem to win over Republicans. I mean I hated Biden before and during the last election and knew he was a of shit because he was one of the leading voices pushing the crime bill away back when and has a history of leaning rightward every chance he's gotten. I could still, then and now, make the argument about how the party as a whole is better without trivializing the ongoing genocide they are aiding and abetting. Yet dead's morals are so shitty that he 1: only reveals how shitty his morals are whenever he tries to make that argument and 2: seems incapable of acknowledging or maybe even understanding that while Dems are the better of two shitty options, that they are in fact shitty and have been doing a shitty job with their time in power.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Dead absorbs every position he has from NYT articles, not from a place where he has reasoned out the consequences or intent of any particular set of actions the people who's boot he licks have taken or are taking.

I'm sure you are right. And as I see it, the best way to attack the beliefs of people with that political position, is to point out that if they are unhappy with the place politics is at, they have been running the show for basically their entire lifetime.

The very nature of having that position defies all rationality and reasoning. There is no clever argument that they will allow themselves to understand. Rationality to them is only for rationalizations.

The last resort is simple empirical evidence. True neoliberalism HAS been tried, its outcomes are bad, and they were predicted by its political critics from the very beginning.

Basically, you were told you were wrong, you did the thing you were told was wrong anyway, the thing people who told you it was wrong said would happen happened, even you feel the outcome is wrong, have you considered just maybe that you were wrong all along?

[deaddmwalking]

You keep ascribing politics to me that are not my own.

I was a Political Science/International Relations major in college. I often speak about what I believe is possible or likely. That does not mean that it is what I, personally, hope happens. Sometimes there are things that I would like to see happen but I have concerns about implementation.

Politics is the art of the possible.

My impression of several posters on this site is that their position is:

1) Vote for Bernie Sanders
2) Everything is magically fixed

I don't see how that works. Recognizing that we have a system of government and that maintaining the APPEARANCE of legitimacy is actually important constrains what types of changes can be made.

[Kaelik]

I was a Political Science/International Relations major in college. I often speak about what I believe is possible or likely. That does not mean that it is what I, personally, hope happens. Sometimes there are things that I would like to see happen but I have concerns about implementation.

The issue here is that we actually live in a world where every day raging psychopath bigots like Joe Biden are the president and say things like "I'm just concerned about what's POSSIBLE and that's why I'm going to close down the entire fucking border to all asylum seekers. I just have concerns about IMPLEMENTATION and that's why I'm going to give Cops all the money that was supposed to help people from COVID and tell them to go break skulls."

No one is required to pretend to believe the most pathetically bad faith neoliberal justifications. It's theoretically possible you are the one fucking dumbass who's every action is pure evil by good faith mistake, but no one is required to pretend that's true. Everyone can just sort of move on with the conversation saying that you believe the same thing as every other liar who uses the exact same lies.

My impression of several posters on this site is that their position is:

1) Vote for Bernie Sanders
2) Everything is magically fixed

Oh no! Maybe deaddm is just in good faith completely baffled and accidentally forgot all the specific things people have said about things that can be done to make the world better.

Or maybe he's a bad faith lying piece of shit who is saying this dumb shit because it's a way to advance his actual political goals without admitting to them. We must launch a 6 year committee investigation into it before we can make fun of him!

[PseudoStupidity]

Listen, ddm believes in the art of the possible. That means he supports no policy positions at all and just agrees with whatever the Democrats are saying at the time. Because that is what's possible for him, actually having a coherent view of the world sounds kinda hard :/

[MGuy]

I'm pretty sure I've been spot on with every political stance I've ascribed to dead. He even weirdly aggressively affirmed I was exactly right before about what he believes. I wouldn't even need to change my position with this whole 'Art of the Possible' crap because he only understands what's possible by people telling him what is via NYT articles. Which would be a problem for people who wanted good things to happen. If say, dead doesn't care about good things happening because the boot isn't on his neck yet, then this is not a big problem and only would be a big problem if/when the boot makes it to his doorstep.

All well understood lore of course. What I think is weird here is summing up most of the accusations of being dead being a moron to just be a desire to vote for Sanders given that he also thinks we want violent revolution. Not exactly a thing you can vote on. I can only imagine what it is like to be so bereft of imagination that even when criticizing others he can only imagine voting being the end all, be all, to political stances. I don't see the vote Sanders option on the desire to stop aiding and abetting a genocide for the better part of the year so I guess that stint in Poli Sci really didn't teach him to actually interpret the things people are saying. Or he believes in the necessity of genocide so much that any other alternative is just wishing for 'magic' to happen.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

You keep ascribing politics to me that are not my own.

Prove it liar.

I was a Political Science/International Relations major in college.

Failed appeal to authority.

...Politics is the art of the possible.

Waffle. Meaningless irrelevant waffle.

My impression of several posters on this site is that their position is:

1) Vote for Bernie Sanders
2) Everything is magically fixed

Typically enormous strawman.

Recognizing that we have a system of government and that maintaining the APPEARANCE of legitimacy is actually important constrains what types of changes can be made.

Hey look. Accidental content. Oh wait... the appearance of legitimacy is important... but you were just now smearing Sanders supporters... and you have been a strong Biden supporter... a repeated lesser evil fanatic as that very argument erodes legitimacy to nothing, even in the face of Genocide, and a strong straight up Genocide supporter, even combined with the complete delegitimization of international organizations and diplomacy... and YOU claim to be the one and only one who cares about the appearance of legitimacy?

Yeah the only idiots in the world that think Biden is an avatar of legitimacy rather than the direct god damn opposite are the NYT idiots MGuy describes. But that is not somehow your politics?

Even "Principled Liberals" who actually care about legitimacy would be here right now calling on the obviously apparently senile genocidal lunatic to be immediately retired/impeached for being incapable of performing his role NOW. Last year even, maybe earlier. There are formal rules that are supposed to allow/require that very act when the government is legitimately functional. And because NOT doing that undermines the appearance of legitimacy.

[Kaelik]

For what little it's worth (exactly fucking zero) my major in college was also Political Science, though it was called Government in the University of Texas education system.

I would not imagine using that as some kind of statement about my knowledge of politics at all, for many many reasons.

[Stahlseele]

Questions:
1.) How can you beat medicare?
2.) Why would you ever want that?
3.) Is that not something that people want to have?
4.) If so, why would you boast about having beaten medicare if the people want medicare?

Or am i grossly misunderstanding something and medicare is not, as the name implies, actual health care for people?

[Kaelik]

Questions:
1.) How can you beat medicare?
2.) Why would you ever want that?
3.) Is that not something that people want to have?
4.) If so, why would you boast about having beaten medicare if the people want medicare?

Or am i grossly misunderstanding something and medicare is not, as the name implies, actual health care for people?

Joe Biden said he beat medicare because he's a compromised old man out past his bedtime and he was trying to say that we beat covid and probably something about medicare being strengthened and just said a dumb thing that is stupid and bad and he got dunked on for it.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Actually I want to talk about the art of the possible for a moment in a way that does directly lead to Bernie Sanders.

The line of reasoning is this. If you DO replace Biden now.

You need the following.

Someone with name recognition (Sanders)
Someone who polls well enough to maybe win (Sanders, ALWAYS)
Someone who polls well against Trump (Historically Sanders is THE BEST polling against Trump)

Then the more complex requirements.

The party wants to ditch Kamala Harris because she polls like shit, can't politics, and is a surprisingly useless lunatic that people increasingly are aware probably has some sort of alarming drug dependency or a visible level or intellect/capability that makes all those rumors of industrial quantities of fucking elephant level tranquilizers circulating in the white house really plausible.

The party needs someone who has some sort of democratic legitimacy as a candidate BUT THEY DIDN'T RUN A PRIMARY.

Well. who came second by a large margin in the last Primary they DID run? Sanders. Who did Sanders totally trounce in that democratic selection process? Kamala Harris.

His only weakness is his age, which he is visibly handling better than Biden. Hell he could promise to stay for only one term. No ones done that before.

Otherwise Sanders is actually a very solid very rational, very democratically legitimate choice as a last minute alternative (especially since NO OTHERS WERE OFFERED).

But there is ONE thing that undermines this as a possibility.

Assholes like DeadDM dedicating themselves to fight to the fucking death to deny ANYTHING actually real to the left ESPECIALLY a sanders run. Even though it IS the last minute hail mary that as far as historical polling suggest COULD GUARANTEE the defeat of Trump, and Trump is the end of the world...

... actually DeadDM would prefer to have Trump in power than allow Sanders to be anything other than a strawman cudgel he can hit anyone to the left of Ronald Reagan with in online arguments.

Now. The people who talk about art of the possible and hit you with strawmen shaped like Bernie Sanders when you oppose a genocide, those guys. Their hail mary Biden replacement, and it HAS been floated a few times, even over the last year or more, is HILLARY CLINTON. Who has NO polling advantage, massive unpopularity, a UNIQUE history of losing to Trump, and no democratic legitimacy as a candidate. And in fact is possibly the WORST option.

We all know DeadDM would fall in line on that one before finishing reading the NYT think piece headline.

Some other fuckers pretending to be realistic and reasonable name other randos nobody has heard of. But if you genuinely wanted to guarantee that Trump does not win, just like they SHOULD have last election if THAT is your TRUE priority. Objectively, empirically, rationally, you should be on your hands and knees BEGGING Sanders to run, even if, ESPECIALLY if, as is probably the case, at this point he would prefer not to.

Because there IS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN an option that all our data has always said all but guarantees a Trump defeat.

NEVER let these assholes forget that.

[MGuy]

Sanders would be a lovely choice but he hasn't offered or hinted at going for another attempt. Personally I think Sanders's time has passed. While he is more coherent than either candidate he's still very old and I think the American people should be, if they aren't already, done with super old people being president. According to the polls the actual Democrats seem to use to guide their decisions Kamala does better than Biden currently despite the fact that she has Hillary levels of anti charisma. Pete and Gavin seem to also be popular among their brood right now. Given that Kamala is current VP I would assume that they'd go that route of they chose it since Newsome I believe has indicated he'd be waiting for his run. Maybe Pete would be on the table but the rumor mill has been talking about how Kamala has been agitating for her time in the sun for a while now and politically she's probably at her strongest without having actually become president.

If they change horses, if I'm going to go with what the current roster looks like and where the Dem leadership seems to stand I'd put my money on Harris or Newsome. With how the polling numbers are looking either one could probably pull it off better than Biden at this point and it would be the better thing to do while aligning with all the cretinous interests of all the people involved save for Biden himself.

Just as an additional bit of wtf, for some reason Biden has pulled his highly controversial son into the office to attend meetings at the confusion of all the people around him. Not a good look.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Personally I think Sanders's time has passed.

I also think that, I also think that Sanders thinks that.

I also think that if Sanders ran and won now he'd get maybe 1 Term because unlike Biden the Democrats would demand and enforce the one term old man deal for real this time.

I also think that for certain a Sanders term won now like that under these conditions would be the least productive and beneficial Sanders terms you could have gotten. I would suspect nothing would actually be done, EVERYTHING would be blocked by EVERYBODY.

But.

The entire point of my post is that of the genuinely possible candidates if the only thing you really care about is beating Trump as strongly and reliably as possible.

We have a correct answer.

Like we did the last two times.

If you want the strongest winning numbers, if you want to jump through all the little legitimacy hoops, if the only objective is to beat Trump at any cost because the end of democracy must be delayed 4 more years, if all of that isn't just empty liberal posturing and lies there is and always has been an objectively most correct answer.

And it's Sanders.

As for who they will really pick.

Hillary is a real option they really are considering, don't doubt it for a second. And she would lose so comically hard. It would be an insanely teachable moment in history that DeadDMs worldwide will not learn from.

Newsom and other minor names who importantly did NOT run in the last actual primary for the candidacy are the best bet "realm of possibility" liars will actually support, but they are merely an outside chance (which is better than no chance).

Of course they then have to throw away their potential future runs under much better conditions. Good thing they are all genuinely committed to saving democracy itself from Trump even if it hurts their own career potential! Right?

Kamala and others that did run in the last presidential primary the Democrats will ever allow, were kinda largely proven duds then and there, they would do better than Biden (low bar) and then almost certainly lose anyway.

Kamala in particular looks like a real fucking bad choice for reasons beyond "have you seen her talk" and "she has whatever disease Hillary has that makes her polls go down with every public appearance".

The Democrat insiders know SOMETHING about her that despite her being vice president has made it a general assumption among all powerful party insiders and their trusted media contacts that are "in the know" about "stuff" completely dismiss her out of hand as a potential candidate.

Even if she was the reincarnation of Hillary for political campaigning talent (some sort of charisma black hole) her current position alone SHOULD make her the absolute favorite of those fuckers. The rest of her profile ON PAPER makes her the absolute living incarnation of their idea of the perfect candidate.

The question is what do they know? There are those rumors about drugs, and have you seen her talk lately and can you imagine going off the back of an emergency last minute Biden ousting to her and then something like that coming out?

They are ruling out Kamala for a reason other than just polling whatever it is must terrify them. It certainly would unsettle me...

...IF my genuine primary urgent objective was just to definitely defeat Trump right now.

Just as an additional bit of wtf, for some reason Biden has pulled his highly controversial son into the office to attend meetings at the confusion of all the people around him. Not a good look.

Well that's because in the great race by all western democratic leaders to see who can lose the hardest to fascists as fast as possible they need to smear as much guilty convicted criminal on their face as possible so that cannot be effectively used against Trump.

That and, apparently, crusty orange paint.

[PseudoStupidity]

If we're being art of the possible dipshits then Bernie is outside of the art of the possible because he doesn't want to run, he is an Independent (though he caucuses with the Democrats), and the Democrats fucking hate him. They cannot wait for Bernie to die and have tried to destroy both his Presidential campaigns with public smear campaigns and party insider maneuvering.

Bernie would be the best choice for all the obvious reasons (most popular politician in the country, always wins head-to-head polls with Trump, runs on messages and policies that are immensely popular, actually has any amount of charisma at all) but none of those matter because the Democrats consider Bernie to be an enemy and they're not ever going to change their minds on that. The only thing a liberal hates more than a fascist is anyone to their left. Bernie, being a social democrat, is to their left. No fucking dice, even though he'd kick Trump's ass so bad you'd see crazy shit like potentially flipping Texas.

The Democrats are Ridin' and Genocidin' with Biden. If Biden does actually die (seems more possible now than ever, doesn't it?) before the election they'll just trot out Kamala or someone with name recognition of Whitmer. Their candidate will get fucking washed and our beloved Democrat party will complain that young people didn't vote enough and that all racial minorities are secretly sexist/homophobic (because any of them voted for Republicans at all) and/or did not vote enough.

[Kaelik]

I dont think it will go anywhere besides biden and harris and I think it's like 80% biden.

One reason is that there's a biden Harris campaign with a billion dollars and a bunch of contracts and Harris can use that and whitmer can't.

I also don't think that "all the robby mooks think Harris has no chance" is a very compelling argument.

Robby mooks are fucking idiots. They don't know shit.

I have heard a lot of backroom gossip people saying that in fact many big name democrats are now talking about who can replace Biden, and a recent news article is about donors saying the same.

But talk doesn't mean thise people won't be convinced anyway to shut up.

I'm not saying it's good. Just that it's likely.

[Stahlseele]

Questions:
1.) How can you beat medicare?
2.) Why would you ever want that?
3.) Is that not something that people want to have?
4.) If so, why would you boast about having beaten medicare if the people want medicare?

Or am i grossly misunderstanding something and medicare is not, as the name implies, actual health care for people?

Joe Biden said he beat medicare because he's a compromised old man out past his bedtime and he was trying to say that we beat covid and probably something about medicare being strengthened and just said a dumb thing that is stupid and bad and he got dunked on for it.

Ah, yes, that makes somewhat more sense . .

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Honestly if they don't dump Bide3n by the weekend then they probably won't. And I think his inner circle knows it and is buying time.

Then lets say he drops dead a week before the election. They'll have nothing and its down to Trump vs RFK.

[Kaelik]

Honestly if they don't dump Bide3n by the weekend then they probably won't. And I think his inner circle knows it and is buying time.

Then lets say he drops dead a week before the election. They'll have nothing and its down to Trump vs RFK.

Not how it works. Biden/Harris will still be on the ballot and Harris will be running.

Of course, if it's really a week before, they probably absolutely cover that shit up for a week.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Not how it works. Biden/Harris will still be on the ballot and Harris will be running.

Of course, if it's really a week before, they probably absolutely cover that shit up for a week.

That wont end up with some sort of bullshit like printed ballots in some states in Bidens name that technically go to votes for Kamala? Chaos like that?

(I have vague memories we had a last minute dead guy on the ballot in Western Australia a few years ago...)

Whatever, lets say whatever happens Kamala gets it all, and it's one week before... you don't think maybe that's too late?

[Kaelik]

Too late for what?

The votes are literally for Biden and harris.

You cast one vote for the biden and harris ticket.

Bidens name will be on the ticket and so will harris's and if they win then she will be president just like she will be president when he dies.

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

Too late for what?

To campaign.

To be fair though, it might be better for Kamala to just not.

[Kaelik]

We've entered the 1910s anarchists part of the presidential campaign.

Trump clipped with a bullet in a presumable assassination attempt today.

[Stahlseele]

This has become quite insane . .

[deaddmwalking]

Bernie Sanders: Biden for President